Setsuna Mudou (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beyourarmy) wrote2019-06-26 04:33 pm
beyourarmy) wrote2019-06-26 04:33 pm
Entry tags:
Canon Pairings - ALL MY SALT
**Still adding notes to this, and will eventually put in screen caps**
(Just take everything I say with a spoonful of lulz and we'll be good.)
So, the main pairing in reference to my own character is Setsuna/Sara.
Except Setsuna is Alexiel. So Alexiel/Lucifer is also a pairing in reference to my character. This is a canon pairing. But Lucifer is Kira.
So...Kira/Setsuna is actually canon? HELP. THIS HURTS MY BRAIN. And I've been a fan for over a decade.
But wait, it GETS BETTER.
So why the SALT? I mean, I have actual basis for the pairing I end up shipping the most. Right? Yeah, except I wanted to ship Setsuna/Sara. I wanted to believe in all of it's brilliant lies and Setsuna's absolute devotion. I wanted to be as IC as possible, and hey, incest, it's all forbidden and stuff. Sounds great! Sign me up.
Yeah.... This is what Yuki Kaori did, and this is why even canon itself breaks this down harder than any fans ever did.
Let's start with how much Sara is actually in the series.
Sara
Volumes 1-3. She dies in 3.
Setsuna chases after her, yes, for the next so many volumes until she revives in Jibril's body, but that is not the same thing as being present in canon. She is merely someone talked about, and Setsuna's source ofmanpain and action. We know she was in Hades, and we know she carved Setsuna's name into wood with her own fingernails, but he doesn't find her.
When she revives, she appears to Setsuna briefly during his fight with Michael, but then is in Heaven, where Zaphikel took her. She runs into Raphael, and spends the majority of volumes 8(?)-16 with Raphael, Moonlily or Sevothtarte. NOT Setsuna. That's 6 fucking volumes she really doesn't spend with Setsuna, and the remaining four volumes of the series? She's stuck in a mind-raped landscape, and only spends a little bit of the very FINAL chapter of the ENTIRE series with Setsuna.
I feel the Sandalphon mind-rape could have been handled so much better, and resolved sooner to give her more time actually helping Setsuna - whether sidelined or not - to fight the final battle, and resolve her own issues.
She literally ends canon emotionally destroyed by all of the things she did while possessed and has no closure with anyone she interacted with. Not Kurai, not Raphael, and not Moonlily. And not, that's right, her own boyfriend, Setsuna. Her character development falls flat with this ending, and leaves her under-developed. It's a great place for RPing or fanfiction to pick up, and I highly encourage everyone to do so.
Moreover, she ditches Setsuna in volume 12, and Kira and Katou pick up the pieces in volume 13. They may as well have been his rebound.
So, to recap, Sara, our secondary main character, our other half of the main story coupling, our MAIN heroine (aside from Alexiel), spends 1/4th of the story dead, and 1/5th mind-raped and not herself, at all. That's 9 volumes Sara is not actually in the story. Almost HALF of the story.
On top of that, she only spends 3 of the volumes she is active with Setsuna, one scene dumping him, and the last chapter over-coming Sandalphon and being by Setsuna's side to finish the story off. There was no true resolution for her. No true resolution for Setsuna/Sara, other than Setsuna's determination to get back to her and being with her.
If you want to look at pre-series, Jibril, she was put into Sara Mudou's body by Sevothtarte against her will. She had no knowledge of it, and didn't intend for it. Jibril herself also has no real scenes with much in the way of dialogue of character development.
Don't get me wrong, the scenes with Setsuna and Sara are adorable. They tease each other, analyze each other, and have totally cute coupling like scenes. But it feels flat when compared to how little time they have, and how most of the series feels like Setsuna just trying to get back to her. It feels like cheating us of what Sara could have been.
Kira
Pre-series was Nanatsusaya, who follows Alexiel's soul through reincarnation after reincarnation, trying to soften it for her anyway he can. Until he takes on the body of Sakuya Kira and hangs around a little longer than planned after getting close to Setsuna.
He does have to share Setsuna with Sara in volumes 1-3, but with lines like, "He was my girl before he was born," Kira might as well be giving Sara Setsuna on a loan. Willing to share because it's what Setsuna wants, and Sara makes him happiest above all. Compared to the selfish love between Sara and Setsuna of, "If you leave me I will kill you and then kill myself," scene of volume 3? Kira's willingness to see them off, to help them run away together? To make Setsuna happy at the cost of his own well-being?
Kira's love and devotion is far more mature, and self-sacrificing.
Kira and Setsuna also get something else, a disturbingly romantic astral planing scene, where Setsuna's soul is drawn to Kira while he's stuck in jail for Setsuna's crime.
Volume 4, though? Kira gets Setsuna to himself for a couple of chapters, then, against his own wants, he stabs Setsuna through the heart with the Nanatsusaya to allow Setsuna to chase after Sara. Oh, but not until after Setsuna took the time - AGAINST the directive of Adam Kadamon - to put the Nanatsusaya back together, and therefore put Kira back together. He sets aside his desire to chase after Sara and deal with the whole world falling apart for that.
Volumes 4-7, after, until Setsuna returns from Hades, Kira spends time either by Setsuna's body, or Alexiel's empty vessel. Once the Nanatsusaya is accidentally removed from Setsuna's body, and his ties back to life severed, Kira desperately tries to put the Nanatsusaya back and doesn't leave his side, not again.
While Setsuna is in Alexiel's body, he and Setsuna proceed to have some serious issues for 3-4 volumes, with the occasional nice or normal scene, and overtly sexually charged and suggestive scenes. When Setsuna's finally back in his body, Kira does have to share Setsuna with Kurai and Katou. And once it becomes clear Setsuna isn't going to listen to any reason, and go after Sara at all costs and will not listen to any reason, he excuses himself for a bit. He still has his connection to Setsuna through Nanatsusaya, though. This means, even without direct involvement, Kira is present, even if for just a panel or page or two, in every volume until 14, where he dies.
Kira has to share Setsuna with Katou through volume 13, but 14 tries to keep Katou out of the battle with Rosiel, leaving Setsuna a guardian once he passes. They have one last moment, which Rosiel makes pretty painful, where Kira admits Setsuna has been the first to ever make him forget about Alexiel.
Even after Kira's death, Nanatsusaya - which still has a part of Sakuya Kira in it - is present in volume 15, and Lucifer shows in volume 16 and up.
Sakuya Kira gets more screen time than the main heroine, and Setsuna's love interest, as he is involved in, even in small ways, volumes 1-20.
Katou
Really only gets a strong starting volume in volume 2 but he spends the majority of that controlled by Rosiel, and then dies at Setsuna's hand before the end of the volume.
He shows up again in volume 4, and has Setsuna all to himself for about 2-3 volumes of antics.
They start off bickering, with Katou hating Setsuna, but before the end of it, Setsuna tries to save Katou's life, and Katou dies for Setsuna, willingly, twice. Setsuna admits that fighting with Katou was fun, and he didn't dislike him at all. In fact, he likes him. And risks himself to bring Katou back. Setsuna is involved in a pretty intimate scene of Katou's most innermost thoughts and memories.
For Setsuna, Katou shows up and goes against an agreement to Kira to bring Setsuna back to his original body.
Again, Katou has to share Setsuna with Kira through volume 13, and misses out entirely on volume 14, due to Kira keeping him safe (even if it wasn't obvious at the time). Setsuna loses the rest of the gang and is own his own until he meets up with Michael, and Katou doesn't show up again until volume 16.
Things are no longer the same at this point. Katou is starting to lose his memories, and after he gets cut down trying to protect Setsuna from Lucifer, his body is also falling apart, rot spreading throughout.
Setsuna cries for him, stays by his side while he's bed bound, and tries to use his own body as a shield to prevent Katou from being hurt again by Lucifer in volume 18.
Volume 18 is Katou's volume. He has a moment with Setsuna where they don't even talk, but just share smiles.
By the end, Katou sacrifices himself one last time (his 5th death), and still makes sure Setsuna gets to safety in the process. He tries to convince him he doesn't remember him, trying to make things easier on Setsuna, but fails.
Setsuna ends volume 18 off pretty emotionally bad off after losing yet another person.
Kurai
Kurai starts off not caring for Setsuna at all, and just wanting to find Alexiel in him, right off the bat in Volume 1. By Volume 3 she's already crushing on him, possibly in love. She gets to see him off in Volume 4, then helps watch over his empty body, and Sakuya Kira while he waits, in volumes 4-7.
She has interaction with Setsuna once he returns, and even a deeply heart-felt scene with Kira where she cries out her frustrations of having come to love Setsuna, so much to the point she can't get herself to trick Setsuna and win him over with superficial means. Other than his stint in Hades, and the volumes after they are separated in 14, Kurai has interaction with Setsuna. They meet up again shortly after he and Katou are reunited, and Kurai is up with him nearly until the very end.
She even says goodbye to him before he goes back to his life on Earth, and gets some sort of resolution with him. Even almost kisses him before she gives him up and pushes him back to his life with Sara.
Conclusion
Setsuna has romantic undertone story lines with all of the above mentioned characters. They're painful. Even his story line with Sara, which ends in such a broken way, though Setsuna is convinced everything will be fine and happy, now.
Kurai is under no such delusions and worries for him.
Katou is dead. Their connection severed.
Kira is dead, but somewhere in Lucifer.
Sara is broken and feels like she's a horrible person that did all of these terrible things, taking her time spent as Sandalphon personally, and feels guilt for it.
If asked? I would say Yuki Kaori wanted to ship Setsuna with Katou, Kira and even Kurai at some point. But since Setsuna/Sara was her starting ship, she stuck to her guns and continued on with it at all costs. Again, it has its moments, and it's not all bad, but when combined with all of the above, it feels lacking in comparison to what Setsuna had with everyone else.
Personally, if I was going to go for taboo? I would have OT3'd the Hell out of Kira/Setsuna/Katou and just be done with it. Not just a gay story, no, a threesome, breaking all barriers. Incest, when compared to the reality of how life probably started and the fact we're all likely related if you go back far enough, seems pretty tame and just a social construct taboo when all of that is taken into consideration. Especially when younger sister crushing on older brother is, well, kind of common in shoujo. Whereas gay threesome? Still a hot topic. And not enough homosexual main couplings, period. OUTSIDE of niche yaoi/shounen-ai canons. Definitely not back in the 90s, and not even now in 2019. A heterosexual incest coupling seems almost like a cop-out. Not to mention, after Kira's line to Setsuna about his loves being he dangerous types? Katou and Kira fit this idea a bit more.
Granted, both dead. Meh. So that leaves Kurai!
I do, btw, ship Setsuna/Kurai. But it never works out very shippy when I play it.... But neither does Kira/Sets/Kat.
Still bitter, to this day, about how little Sara is actually involved in the series. Do I want a Sara? Pffft. I want ALL the Saras. So please help flesh this out with me? Help give me what canon lacked? I'd so appreciate it.
(Just take everything I say with a spoonful of lulz and we'll be good.)
So, the main pairing in reference to my own character is Setsuna/Sara.
Except Setsuna is Alexiel. So Alexiel/Lucifer is also a pairing in reference to my character. This is a canon pairing. But Lucifer is Kira.
So...Kira/Setsuna is actually canon? HELP. THIS HURTS MY BRAIN. And I've been a fan for over a decade.
But wait, it GETS BETTER.
So why the SALT? I mean, I have actual basis for the pairing I end up shipping the most. Right? Yeah, except I wanted to ship Setsuna/Sara. I wanted to believe in all of it's brilliant lies and Setsuna's absolute devotion. I wanted to be as IC as possible, and hey, incest, it's all forbidden and stuff. Sounds great! Sign me up.
Yeah.... This is what Yuki Kaori did, and this is why even canon itself breaks this down harder than any fans ever did.
Let's start with how much Sara is actually in the series.
Sara
Volumes 1-3. She dies in 3.
Setsuna chases after her, yes, for the next so many volumes until she revives in Jibril's body, but that is not the same thing as being present in canon. She is merely someone talked about, and Setsuna's source of
When she revives, she appears to Setsuna briefly during his fight with Michael, but then is in Heaven, where Zaphikel took her. She runs into Raphael, and spends the majority of volumes 8(?)-16 with Raphael, Moonlily or Sevothtarte. NOT Setsuna. That's 6 fucking volumes she really doesn't spend with Setsuna, and the remaining four volumes of the series? She's stuck in a mind-raped landscape, and only spends a little bit of the very FINAL chapter of the ENTIRE series with Setsuna.
I feel the Sandalphon mind-rape could have been handled so much better, and resolved sooner to give her more time actually helping Setsuna - whether sidelined or not - to fight the final battle, and resolve her own issues.
She literally ends canon emotionally destroyed by all of the things she did while possessed and has no closure with anyone she interacted with. Not Kurai, not Raphael, and not Moonlily. And not, that's right, her own boyfriend, Setsuna. Her character development falls flat with this ending, and leaves her under-developed. It's a great place for RPing or fanfiction to pick up, and I highly encourage everyone to do so.
Moreover, she ditches Setsuna in volume 12, and Kira and Katou pick up the pieces in volume 13. They may as well have been his rebound.
So, to recap, Sara, our secondary main character, our other half of the main story coupling, our MAIN heroine (aside from Alexiel), spends 1/4th of the story dead, and 1/5th mind-raped and not herself, at all. That's 9 volumes Sara is not actually in the story. Almost HALF of the story.
On top of that, she only spends 3 of the volumes she is active with Setsuna, one scene dumping him, and the last chapter over-coming Sandalphon and being by Setsuna's side to finish the story off. There was no true resolution for her. No true resolution for Setsuna/Sara, other than Setsuna's determination to get back to her and being with her.
If you want to look at pre-series, Jibril, she was put into Sara Mudou's body by Sevothtarte against her will. She had no knowledge of it, and didn't intend for it. Jibril herself also has no real scenes with much in the way of dialogue of character development.
Don't get me wrong, the scenes with Setsuna and Sara are adorable. They tease each other, analyze each other, and have totally cute coupling like scenes. But it feels flat when compared to how little time they have, and how most of the series feels like Setsuna just trying to get back to her. It feels like cheating us of what Sara could have been.
Kira
Pre-series was Nanatsusaya, who follows Alexiel's soul through reincarnation after reincarnation, trying to soften it for her anyway he can. Until he takes on the body of Sakuya Kira and hangs around a little longer than planned after getting close to Setsuna.
He does have to share Setsuna with Sara in volumes 1-3, but with lines like, "He was my girl before he was born," Kira might as well be giving Sara Setsuna on a loan. Willing to share because it's what Setsuna wants, and Sara makes him happiest above all. Compared to the selfish love between Sara and Setsuna of, "If you leave me I will kill you and then kill myself," scene of volume 3? Kira's willingness to see them off, to help them run away together? To make Setsuna happy at the cost of his own well-being?
Kira's love and devotion is far more mature, and self-sacrificing.
Kira and Setsuna also get something else, a disturbingly romantic astral planing scene, where Setsuna's soul is drawn to Kira while he's stuck in jail for Setsuna's crime.
Volume 4, though? Kira gets Setsuna to himself for a couple of chapters, then, against his own wants, he stabs Setsuna through the heart with the Nanatsusaya to allow Setsuna to chase after Sara. Oh, but not until after Setsuna took the time - AGAINST the directive of Adam Kadamon - to put the Nanatsusaya back together, and therefore put Kira back together. He sets aside his desire to chase after Sara and deal with the whole world falling apart for that.
Volumes 4-7, after, until Setsuna returns from Hades, Kira spends time either by Setsuna's body, or Alexiel's empty vessel. Once the Nanatsusaya is accidentally removed from Setsuna's body, and his ties back to life severed, Kira desperately tries to put the Nanatsusaya back and doesn't leave his side, not again.
While Setsuna is in Alexiel's body, he and Setsuna proceed to have some serious issues for 3-4 volumes, with the occasional nice or normal scene, and overtly sexually charged and suggestive scenes. When Setsuna's finally back in his body, Kira does have to share Setsuna with Kurai and Katou. And once it becomes clear Setsuna isn't going to listen to any reason, and go after Sara at all costs and will not listen to any reason, he excuses himself for a bit. He still has his connection to Setsuna through Nanatsusaya, though. This means, even without direct involvement, Kira is present, even if for just a panel or page or two, in every volume until 14, where he dies.
Kira has to share Setsuna with Katou through volume 13, but 14 tries to keep Katou out of the battle with Rosiel, leaving Setsuna a guardian once he passes. They have one last moment, which Rosiel makes pretty painful, where Kira admits Setsuna has been the first to ever make him forget about Alexiel.
Even after Kira's death, Nanatsusaya - which still has a part of Sakuya Kira in it - is present in volume 15, and Lucifer shows in volume 16 and up.
Sakuya Kira gets more screen time than the main heroine, and Setsuna's love interest, as he is involved in, even in small ways, volumes 1-20.
Katou
Really only gets a strong starting volume in volume 2 but he spends the majority of that controlled by Rosiel, and then dies at Setsuna's hand before the end of the volume.
He shows up again in volume 4, and has Setsuna all to himself for about 2-3 volumes of antics.
They start off bickering, with Katou hating Setsuna, but before the end of it, Setsuna tries to save Katou's life, and Katou dies for Setsuna, willingly, twice. Setsuna admits that fighting with Katou was fun, and he didn't dislike him at all. In fact, he likes him. And risks himself to bring Katou back. Setsuna is involved in a pretty intimate scene of Katou's most innermost thoughts and memories.
For Setsuna, Katou shows up and goes against an agreement to Kira to bring Setsuna back to his original body.
Again, Katou has to share Setsuna with Kira through volume 13, and misses out entirely on volume 14, due to Kira keeping him safe (even if it wasn't obvious at the time). Setsuna loses the rest of the gang and is own his own until he meets up with Michael, and Katou doesn't show up again until volume 16.
Things are no longer the same at this point. Katou is starting to lose his memories, and after he gets cut down trying to protect Setsuna from Lucifer, his body is also falling apart, rot spreading throughout.
Setsuna cries for him, stays by his side while he's bed bound, and tries to use his own body as a shield to prevent Katou from being hurt again by Lucifer in volume 18.
Volume 18 is Katou's volume. He has a moment with Setsuna where they don't even talk, but just share smiles.
By the end, Katou sacrifices himself one last time (his 5th death), and still makes sure Setsuna gets to safety in the process. He tries to convince him he doesn't remember him, trying to make things easier on Setsuna, but fails.
Setsuna ends volume 18 off pretty emotionally bad off after losing yet another person.
Kurai
Kurai starts off not caring for Setsuna at all, and just wanting to find Alexiel in him, right off the bat in Volume 1. By Volume 3 she's already crushing on him, possibly in love. She gets to see him off in Volume 4, then helps watch over his empty body, and Sakuya Kira while he waits, in volumes 4-7.
She has interaction with Setsuna once he returns, and even a deeply heart-felt scene with Kira where she cries out her frustrations of having come to love Setsuna, so much to the point she can't get herself to trick Setsuna and win him over with superficial means. Other than his stint in Hades, and the volumes after they are separated in 14, Kurai has interaction with Setsuna. They meet up again shortly after he and Katou are reunited, and Kurai is up with him nearly until the very end.
She even says goodbye to him before he goes back to his life on Earth, and gets some sort of resolution with him. Even almost kisses him before she gives him up and pushes him back to his life with Sara.
Conclusion
Setsuna has romantic undertone story lines with all of the above mentioned characters. They're painful. Even his story line with Sara, which ends in such a broken way, though Setsuna is convinced everything will be fine and happy, now.
Kurai is under no such delusions and worries for him.
Katou is dead. Their connection severed.
Kira is dead, but somewhere in Lucifer.
Sara is broken and feels like she's a horrible person that did all of these terrible things, taking her time spent as Sandalphon personally, and feels guilt for it.
If asked? I would say Yuki Kaori wanted to ship Setsuna with Katou, Kira and even Kurai at some point. But since Setsuna/Sara was her starting ship, she stuck to her guns and continued on with it at all costs. Again, it has its moments, and it's not all bad, but when combined with all of the above, it feels lacking in comparison to what Setsuna had with everyone else.
Personally, if I was going to go for taboo? I would have OT3'd the Hell out of Kira/Setsuna/Katou and just be done with it. Not just a gay story, no, a threesome, breaking all barriers. Incest, when compared to the reality of how life probably started and the fact we're all likely related if you go back far enough, seems pretty tame and just a social construct taboo when all of that is taken into consideration. Especially when younger sister crushing on older brother is, well, kind of common in shoujo. Whereas gay threesome? Still a hot topic. And not enough homosexual main couplings, period. OUTSIDE of niche yaoi/shounen-ai canons. Definitely not back in the 90s, and not even now in 2019. A heterosexual incest coupling seems almost like a cop-out. Not to mention, after Kira's line to Setsuna about his loves being he dangerous types? Katou and Kira fit this idea a bit more.
Granted, both dead. Meh. So that leaves Kurai!
I do, btw, ship Setsuna/Kurai. But it never works out very shippy when I play it.... But neither does Kira/Sets/Kat.
Still bitter, to this day, about how little Sara is actually involved in the series. Do I want a Sara? Pffft. I want ALL the Saras. So please help flesh this out with me? Help give me what canon lacked? I'd so appreciate it.